on the list for AJ Hoggard, Mich. St grad transfer

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Re: on the list for AJ Hoggard, Mich. St grad transfer

Post by UltimateVUFan »

VandyFan1233 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:47 pm
UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 7:44 pm Still mourning the loss of Lawrence, Lubin, and Rivera-Torres, honestly.
Those three are more highly rated in the portal than all inbound players except Manon, who is ranked ahead of JRT but behind the other two a fair ways. Hoggard would lead that whole group, though, at #74. Would take the sting off a bit.
Highly Rated? We saw the eye test. Only Lubin was worth keeping. Lawrence is below average SEC guard and Rivera-Torres is not an SEC player. That team was terrible. So glad we have a fresh start with different players! Don't put too much stock in the rankings.
You sound like a jilted lover. You’re deluding yourself if you think Lawrence wasn’t a solid player. He averaged 13.8 points (on 40% shooting), 5.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.4 steals, and 0.4 blocks last year. I would be ecstatic if any of the incoming transfers are so “below average.”

JRT flashed huge upside potential before hitting a freshman wall, getting benched, and losing confidence. He’ll be a player.
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Re: on the list for AJ Hoggard, Mich. St grad transfer

Post by Jason94 »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:59 pm
VandyFan1233 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:47 pm
UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 7:44 pm Still mourning the loss of Lawrence, Lubin, and Rivera-Torres, honestly.
Those three are more highly rated in the portal than all inbound players except Manon, who is ranked ahead of JRT but behind the other two a fair ways. Hoggard would lead that whole group, though, at #74. Would take the sting off a bit.
Highly Rated? We saw the eye test. Only Lubin was worth keeping. Lawrence is below average SEC guard and Rivera-Torres is not an SEC player. That team was terrible. So glad we have a fresh start with different players! Don't put too much stock in the rankings.
You sound like a jilted lover. You’re deluding yourself if you think Lawrence wasn’t a solid player. He averaged 13.8 points (on 40% shooting), 5.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.4 steals, and 0.4 blocks last year. I would be ecstatic if any of the incoming transfers are so “below average.”

JRT flashed huge upside potential before hitting a freshman wall, getting benched, and losing confidence. He’ll be a player.
Regardless of how they were rated, they were key players on a 9-23 team, and none of them were closer to the team's best player, who was Manjon. So we have the 2nd, 3rd and probably 5th best player from a 9-23 team. Lawrence was not very efficient, and his scoring average were largely due to volume as opposed to overall effectiveness.

I think you are fooling yourself if you think that none of the players coming in are better than Lawrence or JRT. I'd say that Jason Edwards is the best player of any of the players we've brought in, and of any of the players who have left. And while JRT is talented, pretty much every player we've brought in is more proven than he is. At this point I'm much less interested in rankings based on talent and am more interested in on court results. there are just too many examples of highly rated players who don't pan out, and unranked players who turn into stars.

I think that it is fair to acknowledge that we've replaced players who (regardless of their talent) played poorly or inconsistently last season and replaced them with players who have much better track records overall. I'd agree that the players we had are more talented than they showed last season, but there perhaps is a reason for that and since there is such a dramatic change in not only staff but style here, a change of scenery is probably best for many of the players.
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Re: on the list for AJ Hoggard, Mich. St grad transfer

Post by VandyFan1233 »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:59 pm
VandyFan1233 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:47 pm
UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 7:44 pm Still mourning the loss of Lawrence, Lubin, and Rivera-Torres, honestly.
Those three are more highly rated in the portal than all inbound players except Manon, who is ranked ahead of JRT but behind the other two a fair ways. Hoggard would lead that whole group, though, at #74. Would take the sting off a bit.
Highly Rated? We saw the eye test. Only Lubin was worth keeping. Lawrence is below average SEC guard and Rivera-Torres is not an SEC player. That team was terrible. So glad we have a fresh start with different players! Don't put too much stock in the rankings.
You sound like a jilted lover. You’re deluding yourself if you think Lawrence wasn’t a solid player. He averaged 13.8 points (on 40% shooting), 5.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.4 steals, and 0.4 blocks last year. I would be ecstatic if any of the incoming transfers are so “below average.”

JRT flashed huge upside potential before hitting a freshman wall, getting benched, and losing confidence. He’ll be a player.
We won 9 games.... 40% shooting is a good 3-point percentage, not fg percentage!! 😂😂😂

You just made my point with his stat line. Below average player on a team that won 9 games.

JRT was too slow unfortunately. I had high hopes but he fits better at San Fran.
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Re: on the list for AJ Hoggard, Mich. St grad transfer

Post by UltimateVUFan »

VandyFan1233 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 9:29 pm
UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:59 pm
VandyFan1233 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:47 pm

Highly Rated? We saw the eye test. Only Lubin was worth keeping. Lawrence is below average SEC guard and Rivera-Torres is not an SEC player. That team was terrible. So glad we have a fresh start with different players! Don't put too much stock in the rankings.
You sound like a jilted lover. You’re deluding yourself if you think Lawrence wasn’t a solid player. He averaged 13.8 points (on 40% shooting), 5.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.4 steals, and 0.4 blocks last year. I would be ecstatic if any of the incoming transfers are so “below average.”

JRT flashed huge upside potential before hitting a freshman wall, getting benched, and losing confidence. He’ll be a player.
We won 9 games.... 40% shooting is a good 3-point percentage, not fg percentage!! 😂😂😂

You just made my point with his stat line. Below average player on a team that won 9 games.
In the SEC, Ty ranked 20th in ppg, 23rd in rpg, and 12th in steals/game. Yes, his shooting dropped off significantly this year (just over 50% last season), but he was still a highly valuable SEC guard among the leaders in several key statistical categories.
Also, in terms of shooting, had he qualified for the list, he would’ve slotted in between 13th and 14th in shooting percentage. To qualify, a player must make a minimum 5 fg/game; he made 4.4. Only 15 players qualified, and Ty had fewer FGA/game than all but one (Tyrese Samuel, who topped the list). I’m not touting Ty as a model of efficiency, but I also think you and Jason are selling him short based on one season’s results, much of which he played through injuries.

Again, your definition of “below average” and mine clearly differ. I won’t be surprised at all if (when) Ty has a stellar final season for UGA.
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Re: on the list for AJ Hoggard, Mich. St grad transfer

Post by UltimateVUFan »

Jason94 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 9:28 pm
I think you are fooling yourself if you think that none of the players coming in are better than Lawrence or JRT. I'd say that Jason Edwards is the best player of any of the players we've brought in, and of any of the players who have left.
Nowhere did I say that, and I acknowledged that Manon likely is better than JRT. As for Edwards, I hope you’re right and that he pans out on the SEC stage. If memory serves you were very high on Taylor last year, and he ultimately didn’t perform near expectations against SEC competition.
Of course, I also willingly acknowledge that the coaching change will hopefully make a big difference and was potentially much of the story for last year’s underperformance by several players.
Time will tell on all fronts.
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Re: on the list for AJ Hoggard, Mich. St grad transfer

Post by VUaskew »

Call me crazy, but would it be all that difficult to bring in someone who shot the ball better than JRT did in the SEC part of the schedule?
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Re: on the list for AJ Hoggard, Mich. St grad transfer

Post by mathguy »

VUaskew wrote: Thu May 16, 2024 10:09 am Call me crazy, but would it be all that difficult to bring in someone who shot the ball better than JRT did in the SEC part of the schedule?
I honestly believe that somehow the Stack-JRT relationship was broken. JRT was billed as a shooter, shot the ball well in the beginning of the year, and then couldn't shoot AT ALL one the SEC rolled around. It was so bad that it could not possibly have been lack of talent, trouble with SEC competition, or even just a slump. Seriously, before Christmas he was 14-33 (42.4%) on threes. Then he went 7-34 (20.6%) from Christmas to the end of January, and 0-20 (don't hurt yourself figuring out the percentage) from February 1st on. Struggling with SEC competition is going from a 35% shooter to a 28% shooter ... this was ... something else.

Somehow either Stack wasn't using JRT right, or JRT couldn't figure out what he was supposed to do in Stack's system.

Either way, I think JRT is going to impress in a new place with a new coach, and think he would have done well here in a new system with a new coach. Oh well.
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Re: on the list for AJ Hoggard, Mich. St grad transfer

Post by CommanderHoo »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 10:44 pm
Jason94 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 9:28 pm
I think you are fooling yourself if you think that none of the players coming in are better than Lawrence or JRT. I'd say that Jason Edwards is the best player of any of the players we've brought in, and of any of the players who have left.
Nowhere did I say that, and I acknowledged that Manon likely is better than JRT. As for Edwards, I hope you’re right and that he pans out on the SEC stage. If memory serves you were very high on Taylor last year, and he ultimately didn’t perform near expectations against SEC competition.
Of course, I also willingly acknowledge that the coaching change will hopefully make a big difference and was potentially much of the story for last year’s underperformance by several players.
Time will tell on all fronts.
👀
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Re: on the list for AJ Hoggard, Mich. St grad transfer

Post by VandyFan1233 »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 10:40 pm
VandyFan1233 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 9:29 pm
UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 8:59 pm

You sound like a jilted lover. You’re deluding yourself if you think Lawrence wasn’t a solid player. He averaged 13.8 points (on 40% shooting), 5.1 rebounds, 1.5 assists, 1.4 steals, and 0.4 blocks last year. I would be ecstatic if any of the incoming transfers are so “below average.”

JRT flashed huge upside potential before hitting a freshman wall, getting benched, and losing confidence. He’ll be a player.
We won 9 games.... 40% shooting is a good 3-point percentage, not fg percentage!! 😂😂😂

You just made my point with his stat line. Below average player on a team that won 9 games.
In the SEC, Ty ranked 20th in ppg, 23rd in rpg, and 12th in steals/game. Yes, his shooting dropped off significantly this year (just over 50% last season), but he was still a highly valuable SEC guard among the leaders in several key statistical categories.
Also, in terms of shooting, had he qualified for the list, he would’ve slotted in between 13th and 14th in shooting percentage. To qualify, a player must make a minimum 5 fg/game; he made 4.4. Only 15 players qualified, and Ty had fewer FGA/game than all but one (Tyrese Samuel, who topped the list). I’m not touting Ty as a model of efficiency, but I also think you and Jason are selling him short based on one season’s results, much of which he played through injuries.

Again, your definition of “below average” and mine clearly differ. I won’t be surprised at all if (when) Ty has a stellar final season for UGA.
You are making this way too complicated with your manipulated stats... He was the 3rd or 4th best player on the worst team in the SEC.

By my standards, that's below average in the SEC
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Re: on the list for AJ Hoggard, Mich. St grad transfer

Post by Jason94 »

UltimateVUFan wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 10:44 pm
Jason94 wrote: Wed May 15, 2024 9:28 pm
I think you are fooling yourself if you think that none of the players coming in are better than Lawrence or JRT. I'd say that Jason Edwards is the best player of any of the players we've brought in, and of any of the players who have left.
Nowhere did I say that, and I acknowledged that Manon likely is better than JRT. As for Edwards, I hope you’re right and that he pans out on the SEC stage. If memory serves you were very high on Taylor last year, and he ultimately didn’t perform near expectations against SEC competition.
Of course, I also willingly acknowledge that the coaching change will hopefully make a big difference and was potentially much of the story for last year’s underperformance by several players.
Time will tell on all fronts.
I mean, you pretty much said that Lubin and Lawrence were better than everyone we were bringing in, and JRT was better than everyone except for Manon, which is an extremely minor caveat given that JRT averaged 6 PPG on 33% shooting from the field. I like his talent but most everyone we brought in performed better than JRT did last season. So you doth protest too much - if I read you correctly, you think we will do worse than we did last season, as our talent level is taking a major dive (especially since JRT was maybe our 5th best player, and only 1 player we've brought in is better than he was. I think that is an extremely generous view of the players we had last season, or an extremely negative view of CJS, given the overall conventional wisdom of this transfer class, and that CJS went 9-23 with what we had last season.

If you read what I wrote at the time about Taylor, I noted that he was a good shooter but one who took almost twice as many attempts from inside the arc than he did from three, or a player who the three pointer was an aspect of his game, but was not his game. This season that skew went the other way, but was accompanied by a steep dropoff in three point accuracy. Still, even with a large dropoff in minutes and usage from his Lehigh days, he finished 4th in scoring on the team and was our most accurate three point shooter in conference play (though we shot just 26.8% as a team in conference play). It is interesting to note that in 18 SEC games and over 387 minutes of playing time in the SEC, he had a grand total of 5 TO's. That may seem great because he was so careful with the ball, but another way to look at it is that he wasn't risking anything in the way he was asked to play. I guess in the end I think that CJS didn't seem to understand how to utilize Taylor, and basically just had him shoot threes, which he didn't do very well, much like the rest of the team.
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