Worst Performance at Memorial

For discussion of Vanderbilt Commodores men's basketball games and recruiting.
Fayettedore
Posts: 315
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2023 2:38 pm
Has thanked: 207 times
Been thanked: 109 times

Re: Worst Performance at Memorial

Post by Fayettedore »

Fayettedore wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:16 pm
commadore wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:59 pm I agree. In fact, I am done.
:lol: How many times have we heard that. Bookmarking this thread for when he comes back. :lol:
Ha! He's back (in other threads). And it only took him 2 days this time.
VandyDoreGuy
Posts: 1
Joined: Fri Feb 09, 2024 3:00 pm

Re: Worst Performance at Memorial

Post by VandyDoreGuy »

Fayettedore wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 11:16 pm
commadore wrote: Tue Feb 06, 2024 10:59 pm I agree. In fact, I am done.
:lol: How many times have we heard that. Bookmarking this thread for when he comes back. :lol:
He's getting fired
FratStein
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:07 pm
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Worst Performance at Memorial

Post by FratStein »

Jason94 wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:32 pm
FratStein wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:05 pm I will continue to say this. Given NIL and the recent NLRB ruling. Stack is coaching a college team, committed to the college sports ethos and academic requirements of yesteryear, against "University-Themed Professional Teams".

He has no chance to be successful, period, and neither will football be successful in this ecosystem. Vandy is going to be slow to change, and if they do change to "Essence of Vanderbilt Commodore Minor League Ball", I will have nothing to root for anyway.
There is no way that this season is the best that we can do. There are a ton of mid and low-major teams that are playing better basketball than we are and not only do they not have the resources (NIL or otherwise) that we do, but they are the teams that are getting their rosters raided by the high major programs.

We may be at a resource disadvantage, but it has always been true, it isn't clear that it is tremendously worse now than it was previously, and even if it were it doesn't excuse the consistently bad level of play we've gotten all season.
But that's my point exactly. We no longer have the *resources* to win, and winning is no longer really on behalf of the university, so who even cares. This is like the equivalent of rooting for AT&T to raise your phone bill because you remember when you once worked at Bell Labs.

This is just college-themed minor league sports.
Jason94
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:43 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 83 times

Re: Worst Performance at Memorial

Post by Jason94 »

FratStein wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 3:18 pm
Jason94 wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 2:32 pm
FratStein wrote: Wed Feb 07, 2024 12:05 pm I will continue to say this. Given NIL and the recent NLRB ruling. Stack is coaching a college team, committed to the college sports ethos and academic requirements of yesteryear, against "University-Themed Professional Teams".

He has no chance to be successful, period, and neither will football be successful in this ecosystem. Vandy is going to be slow to change, and if they do change to "Essence of Vanderbilt Commodore Minor League Ball", I will have nothing to root for anyway.
There is no way that this season is the best that we can do. There are a ton of mid and low-major teams that are playing better basketball than we are and not only do they not have the resources (NIL or otherwise) that we do, but they are the teams that are getting their rosters raided by the high major programs.

We may be at a resource disadvantage, but it has always been true, it isn't clear that it is tremendously worse now than it was previously, and even if it were it doesn't excuse the consistently bad level of play we've gotten all season.
But that's my point exactly. We no longer have the *resources* to win, and winning is no longer really on behalf of the university, so who even cares. This is like the equivalent of rooting for AT&T to raise your phone bill because you remember when you once worked at Bell Labs.

This is just college-themed minor league sports.
I don't know that you cannot develop players, it's just that CJS hasn't done so to this point, but given that mid majors are doing this all the time do seems to suggest that this is move of a CJS thing than it is a Vanderbilt thing. I guess I see this season as more of a failure of CJS while you seem to believe it is a structural failure, but a lot of traditional "haves" like UK are not having any more success than they did previously.

Look at St. Mary's - all 5 of their starters have been at St. Mary's their entire career. They have only 1 players in their 10 man rotation that is a transfer. I seriously doubt that is because they outspent for all their guys.

there isn't any reasons why we cannot be better than we are. And I don't think we have to necessarily do so completely with journeyman players. It's just that CJS would have had to since his HS recruits have generally turned out so poorly.
bhoyal
Posts: 465
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2023 8:21 am
Has thanked: 34 times
Been thanked: 94 times

Re: Worst Performance at Memorial

Post by bhoyal »

Not to be nit picking or contentious but St Mary's always brings in lots of international players as has their rival Gonzaga.

Nations currently represented on the rosters of those two:
Serbia
Korea
Croatia
Australia (many)
Lithuania

What Stack has ended up with is a perfect storm of misfortune.... Colin Smith's injury, the Dort thing, Tasos ending up a bust, Taylor taking half a season to play bigger-time D-1 level ball, Rivera-Torres seemingly hit the wall, what looked like a terrific freshman class looks more like a bunch of projects that have promise but aren't contributing yet so much, Tyrin's inconsistency, Lewis and others shooting ~20% from three, Lubin having to play out of position at the five, etc etc etc .....Stack must be ready to pull out his hair if he had any. It's not like the defending SEC coach of the year forgot how to coach (even though some of his rotations have been fairly puke-inducing and his generous use of walk-ons is bewildering).

I hope we can get another win here toward the end so at least he can leave with less of a bad taste in all mouths involved. That and the last few lingering spouses of drew can clearly see that two wins with the hand Stack has been dealt is clearly better than zero wins with a bunch of future pro players.
Last edited by bhoyal on Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:34 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Molly levy
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2023 8:32 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: Worst Performance at Memorial

Post by Molly levy »

Since we are looking at random rosters, I decided to look at FAU. 5 transfers, 247 has nearly the entire roster with a ranking of low 80's or N/A. Final Four last year, reached ranking of #7 after beating then #4 Arizona.. Currently #25. Players from 8 different states, Russia,, Puerto Rico. Lots of ways to skin a cat
FratStein
Posts: 35
Joined: Sat Sep 09, 2023 3:07 pm
Been thanked: 6 times

Re: Worst Performance at Memorial

Post by FratStein »

Molly levy wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:18 pm Since we are looking at random rosters, I decided to look at FAU. 5 transfers, 247 has nearly the entire roster with a ranking of low 80's or N/A. Final Four last year, reached ranking of #7 after beating then #4 Arizona.. Currently #25. Players from 8 different states, Russia,, Puerto Rico. Lots of ways to skin a cat
This is because the FAU-themed Owls Minor League Basketball team is in an incredible location, provides paper-mill degrees and is paying the players well.

https://www.on3.com/nil/rankings/player ... -key=19515

https://www.on3.com/nil/rankings/player ... -key=21058
User avatar
Versus75
Posts: 379
Joined: Fri Sep 08, 2023 3:53 pm
Has thanked: 7 times
Been thanked: 89 times

re: FAU ... paying the players well

Post by Versus75 »

FratStein wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:55 pm

This is because the FAU-themed Owls Minor League Basketball team is in an incredible location, provides paper-mill degrees and is paying the players well.

https://www.on3.com/nil/rankings/player ... -key=19515

https://www.on3.com/nil/rankings/player ... -key=21058
I know what happened to the $1 million that we gave Tyrin Lawrence. Every time he misses a free throw or makes a turnover, my wife says: "You owe us $10,000."

Apparently, he has been writing a lot of checks.
Molly levy
Posts: 33
Joined: Tue Sep 12, 2023 8:32 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 11 times

Re: re: FAU ... paying the players well

Post by Molly levy »

Versus75 wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 7:30 pm
FratStein wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:55 pm

This is because the FAU-themed Owls Minor League Basketball team is in an incredible location, provides paper-mill degrees and is paying the players well.

https://www.on3.com/nil/rankings/player ... -key=19515

https://www.on3.com/nil/rankings/player ... -key=21058
I know what happened to the $1 million that we gave Tyrin Lawrence. Every time he misses a free throw or makes a turnover, my wife says: "You owe us $10,000."

Apparently, he has been writing a lot of checks.
Is Nashville not an "incredible location"? The point that you may have missed and i need to clarify, is that FAU is winning with players who have low or no ranking
Paying them or not dosen't change that. Tyrin is getting paid, and i would guess there are others aat Vandy getting paid something. So maybe there is something going on more than location or money or caliber of the academics
Jason94
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Sep 11, 2023 9:43 am
Has thanked: 1 time
Been thanked: 83 times

Re: Worst Performance at Memorial

Post by Jason94 »

bhoyal wrote: Mon Feb 12, 2024 4:14 pm Not to be nit picking or contentious but St Mary's always brings in lots of international players as has their rival Gonzaga.

Nations currently represented on the rosters of those two:
Serbia
Korea
Croatia
Australia (many)
Lithuania

What Stack has ended up with is a perfect storm of misfortune.... Colin Smith's injury, the Dort thing, Tasos ending up a bust, Taylor taking half a season to play bigger-time D-1 level ball, Rivera-Torres seemingly hit the wall, what looked like a terrific freshman class looks more like a bunch of projects that have promise but aren't contributing yet so much, Tyrin's inconsistency, Lewis and others shooting ~20% from three, Lubin having to play out of position at the five, etc etc etc .....Stack must be ready to pull out his hair if he had any. It's not like the defending SEC coach of the year forgot how to coach (even though some of his rotations have been fairly puke-inducing and his generous use of walk-ons is bewildering).

I hope we can get another win here toward the end so at least he can leave with less of a bad taste in all mouths involved. That and the last few lingering spouses of drew can clearly see that two wins with the hand Stack has been dealt is clearly better than zero wins with a bunch of future pro players.
The misfortune has a little to do with what is happening, but the rest of it is poor player evaluations and roster management issues that have finally caught up with him. You can have misses in your HS recruiting if your transfers all work out like Manjon and Robbins, but the minute they don't work out like Tasos, there is no depth to survive the slightest downturn in production or loss of a starter. A lot of teams lose starters and don't completely collapse.

I don't think that CJS forgot how to coach, but the results speak for themselves and as badly as CBD underachieved with his team, this is objectively a worse team from an efficiency standpoint and record standpoint. Much as talent can overcome only so much bad coaching, good coaching can only overcome so much lack of talent. Years of not being able to bring in and retain HS talent has led CJS to be susceptible to a season like this. And this is not likely a one off as next year looks even worse under CJS without Lawrence or Manjon.
Post Reply Previous topicNext topic